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justwantsafety(Continued from here.)
Didn't he already tell them that, at the barricade? She didn't like hearing it, and returned fire. Man, she just doesn't want to listen, does she! Not very bright, if you ask me. Kind of makes me wonder why Serph keeps her on as one of his officers, aside from her sniping skill. I mean, it's not like he's buddies with her mom or anyth-- oh. Never mind.
Serph? Now would be an awesome time to put your Second in his place. This is not why you came there. Yes, finding out about the girl with the wierd black hair is important, but to say that the situation overall isn't? Have him add it to the list of questions, but come on... be reasonable.
Heat gets so pissed and obsessive here, he wakes up.
Any time now, Serph. Any time now.
....
Yeah, Serph isn't going to step in. For whatever reason, both he and Argilla are just standing by watching while Heat manhandles a shaking, fearful Harley. Even if this... uh... "interrogation" method yielded any info, how coherent do you think that info would be? Harley's been screaming, stuttering, and running away as fast as he can.
And even if we accept most of those questions as ones to have Harley try answering, the last one there is just completely unreasonable. What does Heat expect Harley to say, anyway?
Yes, I know he's basically just venting frustration here, but the point remains. Harley's expected to answer that?
To recap: These are guys he's been feuding with for ages. Yes, they shoot at each other... but those were already known rules of engagement. Suddenly everything changes; people are turning into demons and ripping people apart tooth and claw, and horror of horrors, eating them. And three of those people came into his base, his home, which is clearly trespassing, wouldn't leave when he tried to give them the hint, and haven't even taken his begging for his life. They've cornered him and he's getting manhandled... and Heat's demanding that he tell them things he could not possibly know. The obvious threat here is, he either answers their absolutely impossible questions, or he gets slaughtered.
So, the obvious conclusion is, he's going to get slaughtered.
(Yes, I understand that the Embryon thought Harley might know. But this is from Harley's perspective, remember.)
He tries being honest with them anyway, whether because he's still trying to beg for leniency, or because he simply can't think coherently enough still to come up with a convincing lie so as to satisfy them when he really hasn't a clue, I have no idea.
In other words, honesty and begging for his life earns him some more brutality.
Way to go, Embryon. Someone can't answer your questions, so your Second throws them into a wall. Great way to win friends and influence people!
Well, influence them, anyway.
At this point, I'm pretty certain the situation was really grim in his eyes. He can't answer their unreasonable questions. They're not giving him any other options, even though he's begged them. His back is to the wall, literally. He's been cornered and has nowhere else to run. Nothing he can offer them is going to make them back off, and he doesn't think he can stand up to them, or he would've by now.
They're gonna slaughter him, and there's nothing he can do about it.
This is the point at which he snaps.
They weren't expecting him to speak up. They'd basically already disregarded him over there, not that he'd noticed. They're too preoccupied with their unreasonable questions' lack of answers.
The conclusion I've come to about that line is that his demon's form was influencing his phrasing, what with him no longer being in his right mind and all... but no matter how you want to put it, the message behind his words is clear enough:
They'll do to him, unless he does to them first.
Fill in the blanks as appropriate: They'll eat him, unless he eats them first. They'll kill him, unless he kills them first. They'll tear him to pieces, unless he tears them to pieces first.
No matter the terms used, it's clear, with sanity in the back seat now, instinct's taken over. The only means of defense he has left is to lash out and not hold back.
Despite the fact that "eat or be eaten" is the theme of the game, and his saying he "understands" something, I don't think this is a matter of him accepting anything other than that his situation was hopeless, and that he has no other recourse to avoid his impending doom than to attack. That was what he "understood" at that point. It's a matter of using lethal force as a last resort of self-defense.
Just look at any report of wild animals being cornered -- they will attack, and usually bolt again at the first opportunity that their attack creates for them to do so, unless they've done enough damage. Then they might finish the job.
The fact that he transforms as he declares such only seems to reinforce that idea.
Back at the barricade, remember that his atma began to act up as he shot at them, because it's tied to the will to fight, regardless of, or perhaps despite, conscious approval or disapproval. (Not like approval doesn't help, but it's not essential.) Well, now Harley wants to fight them. It's his last gambit for survival, after all.
His dialogue throughout the fight only serves to reinforce the idea that he's completely lost his mind.
Laughing during battle when getting pounded? Poor guy's totally fruit loops.
I found it interesting that this last line of his here is usually given toward the end of the battle, when his health is very low. He says that, and then he casts Fire Storm (basically, it's just maragi with a different animation.) until you land the last hit and finish him off. It's his really, really last ditch effort, a kind of bravado born of insanity and hopelessness. He's throwing in what little he has left, and it's still not enough.
Edit: Further screwing around in the boss battle in a NewGame+ reveals that his lines don't always correspond to certain moves, but usually do. He does indeed give that line and cast Fire Storm more often at the end of the battle once he's down past a certain amount of health, though. He only starts talking and pulling out the stronger attacks once you've taken his health down a ways, and seems to focus more on Fire Storm once it's down lower still, so the point stands: he gets more desperate, the closer he is to dying.
At the end of the battle, he's shown falling down, in flames... which is a cool effect, but doesn't account for when the last few strikes in the battle are physical attacks, or more amusing, bufu. (Because casting ice at him is totally going to set the fail pony demon on fire. Totally. Besides that, he's immune to fire-based attacks. Casting agi on him results in "BLOCK" -- it does nothing at all to him.)
So, in sum:
He wakes up after the explosion and fight to find that Serph's a monster and is eating the remains of someone. He flees back to base and sets up a defense of sorts against the Embryon... who, sure enough, invade his home. Argilla asks him what happened, and he tells her: they turned into monsters and killed and ate his men. She doesn't want to hear that, and fires back... and the fight escalates to the others changing, which scares Harley off. He continues to run away from them, pleading with them to leave him be, and instead of doing that, they corner him in his office and bully him until he snaps and lashes out at them... at which point, they kill him, thus proving his fears right: they did end up killing and eating him too.
Should he have tried to pull himself together more and calmed down, and either tried fighting them off more effectively, or talking to them? Sure. The fact that he didn't just shows that he... didn't. That's a failure on his part, but it's not exactly wrongdoing. Technically, all Harley is really guilty of here is letting fear, which was new to him, overcome him. Is it really wrong to be afraid of something one finds terrifying?
Should the Embryon have tried doing things differently? Without a doubt, yes. There're plenty of points at which they could've, and should've, handled the situation better, not the least of which was to tell Heat to settle down when he was holding Harley up by his collar. They had him in that room, and he hadn't snapped yet; they could've tried talking him down and making it clear to him that they didn't intend to massacre him. Though they'd stated that they wanted to know things of him, they never actually said anything about not harming him, or did anything to try to reassure him, to give him any reason to think that they didn't primarily come there to finish what they'd started out on that battlefield. Heat essentially did the polar opposite when they'd cornered him.
At worst, the Embryon are guilty of everything from trespassing, to bullying during interrogation (would it count as psychological torture, brief though it was?) and at best, grossly mishandling a situation that did not need to go down the way it did... and Harley's mostly just guilty of being afraid out of his mind to the point of failing.
Is he the victim here? From his point of view, absolutely, yes, without a doubt, he was. He won't be giving anyone a different answer, if asked.
Is this writeup biased? I said so at the start.
So, what of the other characters? I'll probably write something up for them later. Maybe. I dunno. I'm not playing the others right now, like I am Harley, so we'll see.
(Continued here.)
(Serph, Argilla, and Heat step into Harley's command room. Harley's in there, holding his hand up, as though to keep them back, but that obviously doesn't work.)
Harley: Stay away!
Argilla: Harley, tell us what's going on!
Didn't he already tell them that, at the barricade? She didn't like hearing it, and returned fire. Man, she just doesn't want to listen, does she! Not very bright, if you ask me. Kind of makes me wonder why Serph keeps her on as one of his officers, aside from her sniping skill. I mean, it's not like he's buddies with her mom or anyth-- oh. Never mind.
(Heat steps up)
Heat: That is not important. Who exactly is the girl?
Serph? Now would be an awesome time to put your Second in his place. This is not why you came there. Yes, finding out about the girl with the wierd black hair is important, but to say that the situation overall isn't? Have him add it to the list of questions, but come on... be reasonable.
Harley: What girl? Please don't... I don't know anything! I'm telling the truth!
(Heat grabs Harley by the collar, and lifts him up as he gets more pissed off just asking things. His Atma mark begins to glow brighter as he does.)
Heat: Why don't you know? We were the only ones on the battlefield. Now, who is the girl? Where did she come from? Answer me, Harley. Why the hell can't I get that girl out of my mind!?
(Heat's eyes change from flat gray to a clear red.)
Heat gets so pissed and obsessive here, he wakes up.
Any time now, Serph. Any time now.
....
Yeah, Serph isn't going to step in. For whatever reason, both he and Argilla are just standing by watching while Heat manhandles a shaking, fearful Harley. Even if this... uh... "interrogation" method yielded any info, how coherent do you think that info would be? Harley's been screaming, stuttering, and running away as fast as he can.
And even if we accept most of those questions as ones to have Harley try answering, the last one there is just completely unreasonable. What does Heat expect Harley to say, anyway?
Yes, I know he's basically just venting frustration here, but the point remains. Harley's expected to answer that?
To recap: These are guys he's been feuding with for ages. Yes, they shoot at each other... but those were already known rules of engagement. Suddenly everything changes; people are turning into demons and ripping people apart tooth and claw, and horror of horrors, eating them. And three of those people came into his base, his home, which is clearly trespassing, wouldn't leave when he tried to give them the hint, and haven't even taken his begging for his life. They've cornered him and he's getting manhandled... and Heat's demanding that he tell them things he could not possibly know. The obvious threat here is, he either answers their absolutely impossible questions, or he gets slaughtered.
So, the obvious conclusion is, he's going to get slaughtered.
(Yes, I understand that the Embryon thought Harley might know. But this is from Harley's perspective, remember.)
He tries being honest with them anyway, whether because he's still trying to beg for leniency, or because he simply can't think coherently enough still to come up with a convincing lie so as to satisfy them when he really hasn't a clue, I have no idea.
Harley: Please... I really don't know...
(Heat throws him into the display on the wall, hard enough to crack it, and Harley slides down to the floor.)
In other words, honesty and begging for his life earns him some more brutality.
Way to go, Embryon. Someone can't answer your questions, so your Second throws them into a wall. Great way to win friends and influence people!
Well, influence them, anyway.
At this point, I'm pretty certain the situation was really grim in his eyes. He can't answer their unreasonable questions. They're not giving him any other options, even though he's begged them. His back is to the wall, literally. He's been cornered and has nowhere else to run. Nothing he can offer them is going to make them back off, and he doesn't think he can stand up to them, or he would've by now.
They're gonna slaughter him, and there's nothing he can do about it.
This is the point at which he snaps.
Harley: I see now... there is one thing I finally understand...
(The three Embryon look up at this, apparently surprised.)
They weren't expecting him to speak up. They'd basically already disregarded him over there, not that he'd noticed. They're too preoccupied with their unreasonable questions' lack of answers.
(Harley's picking himself up. His atma mark glows again, and he begins to transform)
Harley: In this world, it's eat... or be eaten!
(Now in his Hayagriva form, he attacks them.)
The conclusion I've come to about that line is that his demon's form was influencing his phrasing, what with him no longer being in his right mind and all... but no matter how you want to put it, the message behind his words is clear enough:
They'll do to him, unless he does to them first.
Fill in the blanks as appropriate: They'll eat him, unless he eats them first. They'll kill him, unless he kills them first. They'll tear him to pieces, unless he tears them to pieces first.
No matter the terms used, it's clear, with sanity in the back seat now, instinct's taken over. The only means of defense he has left is to lash out and not hold back.
Despite the fact that "eat or be eaten" is the theme of the game, and his saying he "understands" something, I don't think this is a matter of him accepting anything other than that his situation was hopeless, and that he has no other recourse to avoid his impending doom than to attack. That was what he "understood" at that point. It's a matter of using lethal force as a last resort of self-defense.
Just look at any report of wild animals being cornered -- they will attack, and usually bolt again at the first opportunity that their attack creates for them to do so, unless they've done enough damage. Then they might finish the job.
The fact that he transforms as he declares such only seems to reinforce that idea.
Back at the barricade, remember that his atma began to act up as he shot at them, because it's tied to the will to fight, regardless of, or perhaps despite, conscious approval or disapproval. (Not like approval doesn't help, but it's not essential.) Well, now Harley wants to fight them. It's his last gambit for survival, after all.
His dialogue throughout the fight only serves to reinforce the idea that he's completely lost his mind.
Harley: Ugh...! That hurt, you bastards!!
Harley: Burn! Burn to ashes!!
Harley: I-I won't be devoured!
Harley: Die, dammit!!
Harley: Writhe in flames!
Harley: Gyahahahaha!!
Laughing during battle when getting pounded? Poor guy's totally fruit loops.
Harley: I'll roast your flesh 'till it's nice and tender.
I found it interesting that this last line of his here is usually given toward the end of the battle, when his health is very low. He says that, and then he casts Fire Storm (basically, it's just maragi with a different animation.) until you land the last hit and finish him off. It's his really, really last ditch effort, a kind of bravado born of insanity and hopelessness. He's throwing in what little he has left, and it's still not enough.
Edit: Further screwing around in the boss battle in a NewGame+ reveals that his lines don't always correspond to certain moves, but usually do. He does indeed give that line and cast Fire Storm more often at the end of the battle once he's down past a certain amount of health, though. He only starts talking and pulling out the stronger attacks once you've taken his health down a ways, and seems to focus more on Fire Storm once it's down lower still, so the point stands: he gets more desperate, the closer he is to dying.
At the end of the battle, he's shown falling down, in flames... which is a cool effect, but doesn't account for when the last few strikes in the battle are physical attacks, or more amusing, bufu. (Because casting ice at him is totally going to set the fail pony demon on fire. Totally. Besides that, he's immune to fire-based attacks. Casting agi on him results in "BLOCK" -- it does nothing at all to him.)
So, in sum:
He wakes up after the explosion and fight to find that Serph's a monster and is eating the remains of someone. He flees back to base and sets up a defense of sorts against the Embryon... who, sure enough, invade his home. Argilla asks him what happened, and he tells her: they turned into monsters and killed and ate his men. She doesn't want to hear that, and fires back... and the fight escalates to the others changing, which scares Harley off. He continues to run away from them, pleading with them to leave him be, and instead of doing that, they corner him in his office and bully him until he snaps and lashes out at them... at which point, they kill him, thus proving his fears right: they did end up killing and eating him too.
Should he have tried to pull himself together more and calmed down, and either tried fighting them off more effectively, or talking to them? Sure. The fact that he didn't just shows that he... didn't. That's a failure on his part, but it's not exactly wrongdoing. Technically, all Harley is really guilty of here is letting fear, which was new to him, overcome him. Is it really wrong to be afraid of something one finds terrifying?
Should the Embryon have tried doing things differently? Without a doubt, yes. There're plenty of points at which they could've, and should've, handled the situation better, not the least of which was to tell Heat to settle down when he was holding Harley up by his collar. They had him in that room, and he hadn't snapped yet; they could've tried talking him down and making it clear to him that they didn't intend to massacre him. Though they'd stated that they wanted to know things of him, they never actually said anything about not harming him, or did anything to try to reassure him, to give him any reason to think that they didn't primarily come there to finish what they'd started out on that battlefield. Heat essentially did the polar opposite when they'd cornered him.
At worst, the Embryon are guilty of everything from trespassing, to bullying during interrogation (would it count as psychological torture, brief though it was?) and at best, grossly mishandling a situation that did not need to go down the way it did... and Harley's mostly just guilty of being afraid out of his mind to the point of failing.
Is he the victim here? From his point of view, absolutely, yes, without a doubt, he was. He won't be giving anyone a different answer, if asked.
Is this writeup biased? I said so at the start.
So, what of the other characters? I'll probably write something up for them later. Maybe. I dunno. I'm not playing the others right now, like I am Harley, so we'll see.
(Continued here.)
